cybersex & cheating
By Dr. Charlie Glickman • Sep 25th, 2009 • Category: BlogCarnal Nation has a new piece up about the ongoing question of whether cybersex is cheating or not. And I think that a lot of the debate is missing the point.
As far as I’m concerned, what makes something “cheating” is that you’re not following the rules. If you’re playing checkers and you move your piece in a direction that’s not allowed, that’s cheating. Unfortunately, when it comes to sexual relationships, the rules aren’t as simple.
Every relationship has a set of rules and those rules vary widely. Even within a culture that has specific rules for relationships, there are still lots of variations. And that doesn’t even begin to consider all of the unspoken rules that people bring to their sexual lives. For some people, watching porn, flirting with someone, or expressing sexual interest in other people is against the rule of “all of your sexual energy, desire and attention should be directed at me.” Now, if that’s the rule that you want to live by, go for it. But make it explicit and be open to negotiation- your partner may have different expectations.
If you haven’t made the rules clear, then we’re talking about expectations rather than rules. And basing a relationship on expectations is a great way to set yourself up for unpleasant surprises. Clearly, that’s not limited to sex although that’s one of the big areas in which this comes up.
There’s also the question of secrecy and how it affects relationships. Secrecy is one of the best ways to destroy a relationship, as far as I’m concerned. But that doesn’t mean that I’m suggesting that we have to tell our partners everything- privacy and secrecy aren’t the same thing. Marty Klein’s excellent book Your Sexual Secrets explores this in detail, but the short version is that privacy is based on setting boundaries, which is different from keeping secrets. Privacy is about setting limits, but secrecy requires hiding or withholding information.
So, for example, privacy might mean telling your partner that you like to masturbate while watching porn without necessarily doing it in his/her presence. On the other hand, secrecy could mean hiding the DVDs and denying what you were up to last night. Privacy means not letting people see something; secrecy means pretending that there’s nothing to see.
If your computer habits are prompting you to hide things from your partner or to lie about what you were doing until 2 AM, your impulse to keep things secret is probably a sign that you know that you’re doing something that goes against the rules. But if you can talk about your sexual desires and how you’d like to explore them by watching porn or having cybersex, and if you’re able to create a set of mutually agreed upon guidelines, then it’s not cheating. Even if you don’t share all the details of what you do, the fact that you’re not keeping things secret is a good indicator that, for you at least, it’s not cheating.
That may seem like a challenging thing to do, but lots of people have done it and it’s often not as scary as we think it will be. This is one of the ways in which living a sexually authentic life can challenge us to grow.
When it comes down to it, whether cybersex is cheating or not is up to the people involved. If it’s causing problems for you or your partner, then that’s absolutely something to deal with. Fundamentally, it’s cheating if it goes against the rules and it’s not if it doesn’t. And if you haven’t talked about what guidelines or boundaries you want your relationship to have, maybe it’s the catalyst to make that happen.
Dr. Charlie Glickman >> Dr. Charlie Glickman has been working at Good Vibrations since 1996, when he joined the staff at our Berkeley store. Currently, he is our Education Program Manager and (among other things) runs our in-store After Hours workshop program, our Off-Site Sex Education Program, trains our Sex Educator-Sales Associates and writes copy for our website. In 2005, Charlie received his doctorate in Adult Sexuality Education from the Union Institute and University in Cincinnati, Ohio. In addition, he offers classes on sexuality for psychotherapists and workshops on teaching for sex educators.
All posts by Dr. Charlie Glickman
I consider cybersex cheating. I found out recently my husband had been doing it and porn for years in our marriage and it took away all my faith in him, a lot in myself and left me suicidal. It has been 5 months and I don’t feel any better just rage basically. This is my blog about it:
“My world was blow apart yesterday morning. We were supposed to be at the memorial day parade and I was working on setting up links for one of my husbands websites. We have been together, best friends, for 20 years. Anyhow I typed his handle in Google and found out he had a profile on http://www.camfrog.com where he had cheated on me online watching w—-s masturbate and what have you numerous times. He said it was not cybersex because they didn’t watch him. He also said it is normal and nothing to worry about. I am so hurt right now. I don’t know what to do with myself. I have been with him for 20 years and it was a shock that he would do something like this behind my back and then feel there was nothing wrong with it. I feel it is cheating altogether just online instead of in person. He said it is not cheating. Many things destroyed me with this: 1. Him lying 2. I didn’t satisfy him sexually 3. He apparently hated me 4. I don’t understand him 5. He would tell w—- after w—- they are beautiful when I have never heard that once in our entire marriage. (I am very average looking, so it was fine) 6. Their age, I can’t go back in time but I loved him all my teen and 20 years and don’t want him with someone, even online that is younger. The idea of him talking to them numerous times and masturbating to them upsets me beyond belief. I took 20 blood pressure pills yesterday because I didn’t want to end up destroying a 20 year marriage, he is a good father and very loving otherwise but feel my confidence and trust is ruined. Do you think it is cheating? How can I overcome it? Here is the post that upset me when I learned I had been a chump and had faith in our marriage and thought I could trust him and he adored me as much as I adored him.
I am a recently new user to adult lounge, and to camfrog in general. However, I am very experienced with online chatting, going back as far as the old BBS days when I ran 2 separate boards. From there, I migrated to cu-seeme, then progressed into online video chat rooms. I have been around.
Up until now, I have never seen such chaos. Never before has it been the case that I simply could not get a word in due to the sheer amount of begging and directing that goes on in Adult Lounge. Every time I have ever entered a chat room, be it text or video, there were rules and regulations that had to be followed in order to 1) Make it more enjoyable for everyone, 2) make it more enjoyable for the ladies in general.
Here is what I see when I come into Adult Lounge:
User1: SHOW YOUR BOOBS!
User2: TOUCH YOURSELF!
User3: SPREAD YOUR LEGS!
etc etc.
If not that, I am seeing
User1: Do this if you’re real!
User2: She’s a man! PROVE YOUR NOT!!!
User3: (Unintelligible blather)
etc etc.
I have seen many people ask why there are so few women in Adult Lounge. See the above examples and it becomes pretty clear.
From the moment a lady enters the room, she is literally bombarded with people begging and directing and insulting her in every way unimaginable. There is no excuse for this.
There is an op program in Camfrog for a purpose, to stop things like this from happening.
I am well aware that women can: Choose to come in; Choose to show themselves on cam; turn off their IM’s; Ignore the idiots who are abusive… and so on.
Yes, it is their choice to enter the room and become a target, however, it shouldn’t have to be that way. It should be a place that is just as relaxing for them to come in to and have fun, without being harassed the entire time they stay. Sure, some might enjoy it, but for each that does, I am more than positive there are many who do not.
I realize that there is also a matter of freedom of speech. That might work in the general public, but you know what? Adult Lounge is run by a person/group of people, who do have the right to limit what goes on in that room. As soon as you step through the door, freedom of speech is a mute point. It does not exist as long as there are rules and regulations posted on the entrance page.
Here are a few of my suggestions, take them as you will.
1) Take a survey on the site:
If enough of the women who are in Adult Lounge come to this site (Or you could advertise it in the chat room), you should do a poll to find out what their feelings are in regards to the way they are treated in AL. You should ask them their opinions on begging/directing and use these results to formulate some rules which could be added to the site.
2) Add some rules. These rules should pertain to:
The abusive style in which men in the room are acting towards women;
Begging / Directing (Almost EVERY video site I have been on BANS for this immediately!)
3) BAN for spamming. Too many times do I see one person continuously spamming page upon page of utter nonsense. There is no reason for this. A temporary kick does absolutely nothing at all to curb these peoples actions. They come back when they can and spam some more. Why let them?
In the end, it comes down to one thing. You have the power to decide what goes on in your room. You, alone, are responsible for taking care of your visitors and making them ALL feel equally welcomed and comfortable. As the chat room owner, that is your responsibility. You have the final say in everything, even if the room stays up or comes down.
If you do not have the time to do this yourself, you should delegate the responsibility to some trusted ops, give them more power, give them a clear set of rules that determine what is a ban-able offense and what is not. Clearly state the rules on the entrance page, telling users what is and what is not allowed, and ENFORCE THEM! Without enforcement, again, the rules become a mute point.
We all know why I come to this room, it is the same reason that most of the guys do: To look at beautiful (And sometimes not so beautiful ) women and chat with my friends that I’ve made.
If there were some rules and the begging/directing stopped, I can almost guarantee that you would see a bigger influx of women to the room, who would actually STAY instead of seeing how it currently is and finding a different room.
Again, take this as you like, but I would STRONGLY encourage you to consider what I have said and make the room better for those of us who actually enjoy being there and aren’t just there to “get off and get out”.
Thank you in advance.
WTC
(P.s. – EDIT – )
You might also think that adding these kind of rules and banning a large number of people would make the room smaller, which it probably would. You might not be the biggest room out there after these kind of changes, but you know what? The men who stick around would be the type that are polite, or at least will have enough respect for the ladies to follow the rules. These are the kind of people I would think you’d want making up the majority of your visitors. I would HONESTLY rather see a smaller, well run, more enjoyable room than the havoc that it currently is. Any day.
[ed note: this comment has been condensed for length.]